Designer Q&A with Annemarie Jamieson from Box & Dice

Annemarie Jamieson is a Project Manager at Sydney based Box & Dice. Box & Dice is a modelmaking and prototyping company. In this interview I had the chance to chat with Annemarie about what Box & Dice does, common mistakes that Industrial Designers make when utilising prototyping services, the disadvanatges of computers and CAD in prototyping, and lots more.

You also get a peek at the inside of the modelling workshop at Box & Dice, as they have been kind enough to provide some great photos for your viewing pleasure.

You can connect with Box & Dice on Twitter.

Highlights

• “What has happened, though, is that people have become entranced by these technologies and sometimes forget the old tricks and processes that in different situations can achieve a better or quicker outcome than getting on the computer – hard to believe but sometimes it’s true!”

• “Another pickle that designers find themselves in is when they decide how much something costs to prototype before consulting us and then make promises to their client. We spend a good hour or more on the more complex quotations and we’re the experts! So it’s not likely they’re going to get their guesstimate just right. We are always happy to tailor the project to the budgets and needs of the client, but the earlier you can get us involved in your estimates, the better.”

• “We are certainly seeing the rise of the “everyman” designer. We have a bit of a saying around here, that if someone comes to us and says “It’s never been done before” then there’s usually a very good reason!”

1. Annemarie, Welcome to Design Droplets. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us, could you please give us a quick introduction on yourself.

Thanks Raph, great to be chatting with you. To introduce myself I guess I’d have to say that I’m an Industrial Designer turned Project Manager for a modelmaking and prototyping company here in Sydney called Box and Dice. I spend my days in our studio and workshop collaborating with designers and engineers looking to see their hard work in design coming to fruition for the first time as a working prototype or display model. I really enjoy seeing products emerging out of raw materials each day, it’s such a buzz to hold something in your hand that’s only existed on screen up until now. The learning process is also really fascinating. The strangest things end up happening when you move into 3D, things don’t fit that looked fine on screen or the scale totally changes once it’s in your hand, things like that end up surprising me every day – and surprising the designers too.

Main prototype assembly and work bench area

2. You are part of the team at Box & Dice a prototyping and modelmaking workshop in Sydney, can you tell us a bit about Box & Dice and the team there?

Sure. Box and Dice just celebrated its 21st birthday last week so we’ve been around for a long time now. We have two directors, Rick and Allan (aka Speed), who are legends around the design community and have seen it change and grow over the years. Rick comes from a toolmaking background and is the technical dictionary here at Box and Dice – his knowledge on every process under the sun never seems to end. Speed comes from an Industrial Design background and is always coming up with new ideas or ways things can be done, so it’s lucky we have a workshop on hand that he can try all that design thinking out in!

Kalina and myself are the Project Management gurus, aiming to keep our clients happy and our projects on track and running smoothly. I suppose we’re the bridge between client and workshop. The guys in the workshop have a really diverse range of skills with most of them coming from toolmaking or patternmaking backgrounds originally as well as a couple with some serious CNC experience behind them. Between the 5 of them they’ve got 50 years of experience in the modelmaking and prototyping industry (just counting their time here at Box and Dice), and that’s not to mention Rick and Speed’s 42 years between the 2 of them. So I guess I’d say we’re experienced!

Grinding back a metal frame

3. What services does Box & Dice offer?

Traditionally we’d call ourselves a modelmaking and prototyping company offering a complete service from start to finish, this really just means that we have a very flexible workshop and love tackling unique and one-off projects. Our real strength is that we don’t just make parts, we make them work together. When we quote to make something, we include getting it to a point where it is actually doing what it’s supposed to, assembled and ready to go. A lot of other services just make the parts and leave their clients to make it work, and as I said before there is always a surprise to deal with in prototyping, so that just isn’t a helpful approach.

To be more specific about our services, we offer 3D CAD modeling and design detailing, CNC machining, CNC turning, manual machining, silicon moulding, vacuum forming, SLA/SLS finishing, high end painting, polishing, sheet metal bending and rolling, assembly work and the list goes on. So it’s a really diverse range of services that is all brought together under the one roof. Anything that we can’t do here we have a partner that we work with on, and our strong relationships built over many years help us to offer those services with confidence as well.

Spraying acrylic lacquer

4. Can you give us a brief case study of how Box & Dice can help Industrial Designers?

I suppose I don’t want to mention any particular projects, no favouritism here! But so many projects travel the same course that I can give you some general principles, 1. prototyping brings up a lot of issues and prototyping solves a lot of those issues, 2. Box and Dice can’t stop getting involved with the designs that we meet, use us for our knowledge and experience, 3. sometimes we’re the only people who can help – we honestly get that a lot.

Injection Moulded Silicon Replica Implant for Cochlear

5. There are three Industrial Designers at Box & Dice, how do they contribute to Box & Dice?

While all three of us would say that officially we’re not working as designers, unofficially that’s not really the case. Our contribution to Box and Dice is mostly in the form of being able to bridge the sometimes large gap between the big ideas and concepts that designers come to us with and the nitty gritty of what happens in the workshop. Having a design education is vital for us to understand where our clients are coming from and to work with them through some of the detailing of their design and decision-making about manufacturing processes and constraints.

Compound angle machining on a manual vertical milling machine

6. What is the most exciting project you have had the pleasure of working on while at Box & Dice?

That’s a super hard question because I reckon we get about 5-10 whacky project enquiries through the door every day and nothing is ever the same as something we’ve seen before! I can think of one project that came to us from an Interior Architect. Like anything satisfying or exciting I’d say it was more hard work than pleasure, but the end result almost made up for all of the heartache along the way. It came in as a series of sketches and renderings showing a final concept for a cave-like, metallic nightclub installation, no mention of any CAD data, detailed design work or anything concrete. The concept caught our attention and we naturally got to brainstorming about how something like that could be done. Over a few internal meetings, all before putting together a quote of any sort, we’d pretty much resolved a workable approach to the project.

I can tell you that what came after was probably the most grueling and challenging project we’ve attempted in the 5 years since I’ve worked at Box and Dice, just such a huge scale to work on, but the detailing of every section required such careful attention. We came to a few points where it was hard to see a way forward, which is when people like Rick, with his ability to solve any project, are a total God-send. Anyway, we got there in the end. The result is pretty jaw-dropping (there are few photos on the Box & Dice Flickr account) and we can’t really believe that we did such a good job of recreating the original vision – it’s great to even surprise yourself! So yes, exciting and rewarding but maybe not so pleasurable?!

Folded metal modular wall fitting in Soho Nightclub, Kings Cross

7. Computers have brought many benefits to the prototyping process and the production process (eg: CNC, CAD, reduced lead times & increased complexity), as well as opened the door to many new technologies (eg: SLS & SLA). What disadvantages, if any, are there to utilizing computers & CAD in prototyping & production?

There are so many benefits which you’ve mentioned that computers and new technologies have brought to modelmaking. Things that took us days before or even some things that were impossible to achieve at all are now done fairly simply and with little effort – so that’s great. What has happened, though, is that people have become entranced by these technologies and sometimes forget the old tricks and processes that in different situations can achieve a better or quicker outcome than getting on the computer – hard to believe but sometimes it’s true! So that’s one disadvantage, getting caught up in it all at the expense of rational choices about using the best combination of processes.

Pouring urethane resin into a silicon mould

8. Computers & the Internet have also led to prototyping technologies being extremely accessible to not only trained designers, but also to the mass market (an excellent example of this is Ponoko). What impact do you think this will have/is having on the Industrial Design and Prototyping industry? Is this impact positive or negative?

We are certainly seeing the rise of the “everyman” designer. We have a bit of a saying around here, that if someone comes to us and says “It’s never been done before” then there’s usually a very good reason! It takes a designer or engineer with a good command of manufacturing processes and how to detail a design well to come up with a product that will prove useful, resilient and enduring. There’s no use having something that looks fantastic as a prototype but is either impossible to produce or otherwise after production is found not to work or not to prove enduring, and you won’t find many manufacturers in China who will challenge you on the quality of your product. So I think we need to continue valuing the work of the Industrial Designer and the development process that they pursue because the last thing this planet needs is more junk! On the other hand, I’m a great fan of Ponoko and the creativity it inspires.

Painted block model of Victa mower

9. What are some of the common mistakes that Industrial Designers make when utilizing prototyping services?

From our experience their biggest mistake is making a supplier decision solely on price – too often we have people come to us with a shonky model that they desperately need us to fix in time for their super important meeting. By the time we’ve undone and redone the work it would have been cheaper, not to mention less stressful, to have us do it in the first place. You get what you pay for people!

Of course there’s lead time. When we receive a CAD file it’s not simply a matter of plugging it into the CNC machine and out it pops – there is time spent programming, setting-up the machine, running the machine and then afterwards cleaning it up and doing any finishing work (it’s the same with SLA and other similar processes to an extent). It’s one thing to need something in a hurry, that’s OK and we thrive on busy-ness, but it’s another to expect a complete model to be finished in less time than it takes for the machine to run!

Another pickle that designers find themselves in is when they decide how much something costs to prototype before consulting us and then make promises to their client. We spend a good hour or more on the more complex quotations and we’re the experts! So it’s not likely they’re going to get their guesstimate just right. We are always happy to tailor the project to the budgets and needs of the client, but the earlier you can get us involved in your estimates, the better.

Then there are a few minor pointers that we find coming up at different times, like specifying materials that aren’t readily available in Australia, or changing the brief or parts list after the quotation and expecting the quotation not to change (that’s an interesting one to navigate!), or specifying wall thicknesses or other dimensions that just aren’t possible, things like that. We find it works best when designers involve us in their process and ask us questions about materials and tolerances and the like before finalizing their design work. They get a lot out of the process and we end up with parts that are possible to make, it’s a win-win!

Really it’s all about dialogue, and the earlier the better! Less stress, better outcomes.

Vertical milling machine with main workshop area in background

10. Annemarie, thanks for taking the time to talk with us here at Design Droplets. Do you have any final thoughts or advice for Design Droplets readers?

Yes, I read a comment by a wise sage (@Penzacola) on Twitter…“Skip prototyping is like going into a fight holding a bigger gun than the other guy, but with your eyes folded and ears muffled”.

Router cut plywood Flex Hammock (designed by Adam Cornish)